Dungeons & Dragons 4.5e

[kenada]

Wizards posted the Fighter preview recently. The new fighter build:

• Mostly makes basic attacks.
• No longer uses the mark mechanic.
• Appears to be focused on stances as its major mechanic.
• Gains bonus feats every other level.

This change is surprising, and I think it’s clear that Essentials is really 4.5e. The new fighter build isn’t really compatible with the old material because it can’t really take any of the old powers, doesn’t use the same mechanics (i.e., marking), and it pretty much gains nothing from taking multiclassing feats.

This revision reminds me a lot of the changes Paizo made to the fighter in Pathfinder, and it’d be kind of disappointing if Wizards were chasing Pathfinder now to get back those ‘old school’ players who were turned off by 4e.

The thing that makes Pathfinder a better system isn’t the mechanics. Pathfinder still has many of the problems that 3.5e had. The thing that makes Pathfinder better is the high quality support material, and that’s something Wizards has been pretty shit at in 4e.

[kenada]

There’s a rumor that Wizards is no longer going to print the core 4e books after Essentials is released. At this point, I think it’s fair to call it 4.5e.

http://www.mananation.com/exclusive-wizards-reprinting-core-dungeons-dragons-books/

ManaNation has received a tip that Wizards of the Coast has decided to end the print run of the Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition Core Handbooks, instead aiming to turn the game in the direction of “Dungeons and Dragons Essentials”, a product to be released later this year. The first product for the Essentials line is starting with the ‘Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game’ also being called ‘the Red Box’ and is due to be released on Sept. 7th, 2010.

It is our understanding that they are not going to be reprinting any of the three main books, the Players Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide and Monster Manual from this point on to allow them to be phased out. No other books have been mentioned.

[BobChuck]

yep. 4th edition was a failed experiment.

Now the real question is: is there enough interest in 4.5?

[kenada]

Now the real question is: is there enough interest in 4.5?

Probably not much. People who wanted to keep the existing style of D&D moved on to Pathfinder. People who liked the changes made in 4e just got shit on by Wizards.

[kenada]

A new D&D 4.5e preview is up. It looks like they’re throwing away most of the 4e design aesthetic. Bringing paragon-tier feats down to the heroic tier seems like some major power creep, and heroic effort looks like the best racial power ever.

[kenada]

[kenada]

Apparently 4.5e will feature Diablo-style item rarity. Fucking brilliant.

[Measure Zero]

Apparently 4.5e will feature Diablo-style item rarity. Fucking brilliant.

This is not Diablo-style rarity except in the most general sense.  It's a way of making it so that players don't have to track daily item power usage while nerfing player crafting and giving the DM even more to think about while choosing magic items during prep.  It's not bad, but I am opposed to it unless it is implemented in a way that reduces DM prep time.

[kenada]

Wizards is messing with skill DCs in 4.5e. I think balancing skill DCs around people who focus on a particular is a rather bad idea.

[Measure Zero]

Wizards is messing with skill DCs in 4.5e. I think balancing skill DCs around people who focus on a particular is a rather bad idea.

That's a misinterpretation.  They balanced the easy DCs so that someone with a 0 base mod needs an 8 to succeed, and they made it so that hard DCs scale up assuming that you put your stat raises in that skill, and that you get a small bonus from somewhere else (the aid action is sufficient, and there are many other options).  The article even addresses the fact that that hard DCs are too low to present any chance of failure to a character that goes all out focuses on a skill.

[kenada]

Wizards is messing with skill DCs in 4.5e. I think balancing skill DCs around people who focus on a particular is a rather bad idea.

That's a misinterpretation.

More of an exaggeration. I understand the reasoning behind their design decision, but I look at it and think, “my players would have had almost no chance of succeeding at hard DCs in general.”

I’m having a hard time thinking of any character in the games I’ve run (between 3e, 3.5e, 4e, and Pathfinder) who would be in good shape to deal with those DCs. Rob’s brother might have taken feats to boost Diplomacy in my Council of Thieves game. Trever’s healbot cleric had a really good Insight skill, but he wasn’t spending feats or taking other steps to boost it, so he wouldn’t keep up. To succeed at a DC 42 every two out of three attempts, one needs a +34, but Trever’s character would have only had a +27. Even if the other party members were trained in Insight, they would have no chance of success unless they possessed an 18 or higher in Wisdom.

[Measure Zero]

15 levels
4 base stat
4 level ups
5 learned skill
2 aided action
------------------
30 total mod

There are many bonuses and reroll abilities that can be added to this mostly for free.  Racial bonuses and item bonuses are probably the easiest to get, but the demigod destiny and background bonuses are there too.

[kenada]

Oops, I got Pathfinder and 4e/4.5e’s trained skill bonuses mixed up.

[kenada]

Wizards released a (partial) list of changes between 4e and 4.5e.

[kenada]

The Escapist has an interesting interview with Mike Mearls, group manager of D&D at Wizards.